COIT Distribution formulas

How is the income tax distributed among the various entities in the county?

I've looked into it.

It looks to me that IC 6-3.5-6-1 applies. That's the "County Option Income tax". In it, under section 6-3.5-6-32, the county can distribute the income tax revenue in 3 ways:

1) As a property tax replacement credit, in proportion of property tax revenue levied in a municipality to the total of all property taxes levied in a county.

2) Just by increasing the homestead tax credit.

3) As a PTRC to just residential property. Residential property is defined in IC 6-1.1-20.6-4 as homesteads and residential rental property.

4) Or any combination of the above.

There are significant differences community to community as to the homestead/ rental/ commercial property makeup. Depending on how these 3 things are combined, the "return" of our income tax revenue will change significantly.

I think I figured out WHY we "need" a COIT

Hat tip to Thomas. His inarticulateness made me think harder about the COIT.

I figured out why the Legislators and elected officials countywide are so eager to get the COIT enacted:

1. Municipalities are hitting the 2% tax cap (which is current state law). Talking to Dan Repay about my personal situation, Munster and Lake County are missing out on about $500 from me because of the cap.
2. The only way that Lake County, Munster, the schools, etc. can make up that reveue under state law is to enact the COIT. They then use the COIT to lower their levy just under the cap and make up the difference with the revenues from the COIT.

This is how other counties in the state are doing it. Unfortunately for Mitch and the Legislators, even 2% is a lot of property taxes to pay (tell me about it!). It's a lot more than people were paying in the past, that's for sure. I'm sure that this is what happened in Marion County, which had pitchforks and peasants in the street over tax bills there.

Thus, the plan by Mitch to lower the cap to 1.5% and supplement the COIT with the sales tax.

It's all clear to me now! Thanks Thomas!

South Shore expansion

It's time for Buzzcut to weigh in on the South Shore expansion.

I'm sympathetic to the argument that SSE will drive economic growth. I've lived in both Mount Prospect and Bartlett, Illinois, both of which have train lines that the towns used to redevelop their downtowns. And both had lots of high income commuters as residents.

So I think the argument that there are more jobs within walking distance of the Millenium Park station than in all of Lake County is pretty persuasive.

On the other hand, Lake County government is corrupt and incompetant. There is no way that anyone associated with Lake County government should be in charge of $1B dollars!

And the South Shore is run very badly. Why should we allow them to increase their service?

What to do?

1. Privatize the South Shore. There has to be some company out there that would like to run this line. Maybe we'd still have to subsidize the service somehow, but let the bidder with the lowest subsidy run the thing.
2. Start charging for parking at existing South Shore lots. All the Metra lots charge for parking. Maybe this is the revenue stream that can fund privatization.
3. Use the fund from privatization to fund the local portion of the expansion.
4. Create TIF districts around the proposed new station locations. These stations will drive growth in the neighborhoods around them. It seems fair to use that increased revenue to fund the stations.
5. Once the new lines are finished, sell them to the highest bidder. Again, parking and other revenues can be the subsidy, if needed.

I think that this plan is doable. Just charging for parking at existing stations could generate a couple million bucks.

I wonder if the line were privatized if Metra would offer to run it. I'm pretty impressed with Metra, they seem to be well run. Much more competant than the CTA.

Don Lehe is trying to smoke us

http://nwi.com/articles/2007/11/30/news/top_news/doc60173580d3991b1a862573a300158f1b.txt

"I'm in the process of generating legislation that says the 1-percent local income tax will stay where it's levied," State Rep. Don Lehe, R-Brookston said. "One segment of the county should not subsidize the bad spending of another segment of the county."

Republican State Rep. Don Lehe thinks that we're stupid.

Lehe voted for HB 1010, the law that "forced" Lake County concilmen to vote for the COIT.

We don't need more legislation to "fix" or "reform" the COIT, Mr. Lehe. We just need to reject the COIT outright.

YOU are responsible for this tax mess. YOU caused it. And I hope that the voters in your district hold you responsible.

Incompetance at the Treasurer's office

I want to pay my property tax bill this year so that I can deduct it from my federal income taxes. I call the trasurer's office to get the amount I need to pay.

The clerk who answered the phone looks up the property and gives me the number. She gave me a number that was WELL above 2% of the assessed value.

So I called her on it. She referred me to Dan Repay, the County auditor.

I talked to Dan. Turns out the cleak was completely wrong, and my bill was capped at 2% of my assessment.

Total incompetance over at the Treasurer's office.

Also, Merry Christmas to all you Munster taxpayers. Your tax bill is 2% of your assessed value. My property tax bill was 30% more than the 2005 bill.

No legal basis to challenge Smith's votes?

http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2007/11/29/news/top_news/doc461a630f754e3f76862573a20008777a.txt

Council President Elsie Franklin, D-Gary, said she cannot afford to lose Smith."I need his expertise and dedication," she said. She said the County Council's attorney, Ray Szarmach, assured her there is no legal basis to challenge Smith's votes.

I disagree. I think that there is ample basis to challenge Smith's votes, as I have documented on this blog.

Who has the cahonnes to take up this legal challenge?

Tom O'Donnell's phone number

In case you want to give him a call and tell him NOT to vote for the income tax:

(219) 322-4433

His e-mail is t_odonnell@sbcglobal.net

Common Sense at the Times

http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2007/11/26/opinion/times_editorials/doc9a9cae8ab702e0ad8625739d0001c9ba.txt

The General Assembly provided the county an incentive for approving the tax. Unless it does so, the amount of property tax raised by units of government in the county -- excluding schools -- will be frozen

.From a taxpayer's standpoint, that's not such a bad thing. Let the government learn to live within its means.

Are they reading this blog over at the Times?

Mrvan is responsible for this mess

http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2007/11/29/opinion/times_editorials/doc236bb4902599d24e862573a200042b63.txt

As readers of my blog know, the law that is SUPPOSED to impeach upon conviction of felony is IC 5-8-1-37.

Who was the author of this screwed up law? Democrat State Senator Frank Mrvan, from the 1st Senate district, which, suprise surprise, is in Lake County!

Why is every politician in this county totally incompetant?

Times Editorial: Censure Smith

http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2007/11/29/opinion/times_editorials/doc236bb4902599d24e862573a200042b63.txt

OOOH! That'll teach him.

Why not slap him on the wrist while you're at it.

What's the honorable thing for someone like Ton O'Donnell to do? I talked to O"Donnell, and he told me that there is nothing that he can personally do to get Smith off of the council.

Here's what I think O'Donnell and the council should do: don't take any votes until Smith is gone.

What it's all about...

County Council President says that she can't do the right thing and get Will Smith to resign because she needs his vote to pass the COIT.

I think we need a revolution in this county. Violent revolution. Pitchforks and torches style, peasants in the streets revolution.

Our Attorney General is a jackass...

who doesn't read my blog. :(

CROWN POINT The Indiana Attorney General and Lake County Prosecutor said Wednesday they have no legal authority to remove from office a county councilman found guilty of tax fraud until his sentencing.

An error in a 2005 law that was supposed to require public officials to leave office after they are found guilty, likely means County Councilman Will Smith Jr. will not resign before his Jan. 9 sentencing unless his colleagues talk him into it.Smith couldn't be reached for comment.

Council President Elsie Franklin, D-Gary, said she cannot afford to lose Smith while the council is mulling important legislation to create a 1 percent county income tax.

http://www.nwi.com/articles/2007/11/28/updates/breaking_news/doc474dd0bc2710a306520006.txt

Tom O'Donnell is selling us out.

"We will keep tweaking this to make the formula more beneficial to Gary," Clay said.

Tom O'Donnell is in favor of an income tax. He was only against the tax because of the distribution formula. He held out to get the distribution formula changed to one that benefits his constituents more.

But that distribution formula is not beneficial to Mayor Clay or north county. It is Mayor Clay's priority to get the formula changed.

You can see from the above quote that Mayor Clay is going to get the formula changed. He has 4 votes on the council to do so.

What's going to happen is O'Donnell is going to switch his vote, we'll get the COIT, and some time next year the distribution formula will be changed to benefit north county and screw south county.

This whole system is garbage.

I still hold out home that we can bouce Smith from the Council and they can't have the final vote by the end of the year.

The Rumor is coming true!

http://www.post-trib.com/news/667846,lctax1127.article

Lake County residents should start getting used to the idea of paying a 1 percent income tax. The Lake County Council voted 4-3 Monday to create the new tax, to be used for property tax relief. More significantly, the council unveiled a formula for distributing the income tax revenue which will likely garner the support of a fifth member, the “super majority” necessary to override a promised veto by the county Board of Commissioners.

The Bastards!

Okay, who is going to be the first person to donate to the Draft Buzzcut Committee? Tom O'Donnell is going down.

Will we be allowed to "participate" in property tax reform without a COIT?

Roosevelt Allen Jr. says, "Again, the message was clear. Lake County, please listen: Pass a local option income tax, or you will not participate in the statewide property tax relief. "

Really? Says who?

I've gone through all the legislation passed last Tuesday. There is nothing that says "this tax relief is not available to Lake County if it doesn't pass a COIT".

There is the county specific legislation in HB 1001 and 1010 that says that our levy is frozen if we don't pass a COIT by Dec. 31st.

But all the other legislation doesn not mention Lake County or the COIT at all.

I don't think that Junior knows what he's talking about. Wouldn't be the first time.

Is "The Rumor" coming true?

http://www.post-trib.com/news/666892,lctax.article

Councilman Tom O'Donnell, D-Dyer, is currently in the anti-tax camp, but he is not opposed to an income tax in principal.
Under the levy-based distribution formula favored by the four pro-income tax council members -- those from Gary, East Chicago and Hammond -- taxpayers in O'Donnell's district would end up paying more in income tax than they would get back in property tax relief.
O'Donnell has remained open to changing his position, provided a formula for distributing the tax proceeds more beneficial to his constituents can be devised.

He doubted council members would be able to agree on such a plan in time for today's meeting.

"My gut tells me it will pass (today) on first reading by a 4-3 vote," he said.

The council will need to vote in favor of the tax at a second meeting before sending it to the commissioners, however.

If the commissioners veto it, the council will vote a third time.

That will give local leaders a few weeks to try to agree on a distribution plan that nets five pro-tax votes on the council.

THE RUMOR IS CORRECT! O'DONNELL IS GOING TO CHANGE HIS VOTE ON THE SECOND TRY!

Buzzcut's Tax Plan

There's a lot of tax talk in the air. COIT, Mitch's Property Tax Plan, etc.

I think all the tax talk is crap. The current tax situation in Indiana and Lake County may suck, but every other plan out there is much, much worse.

First of all, with regards to Lake County, any plan that swaps income or sales taxes for property taxes feeds the Democrat machine, and should be DOA. Only the property tax regime as it now stands serves to starve the beast.

So no COIT.

The same goes for Mitch's plan. If local property taxes are lowered and the sales tax replaces those revenues, that just feeds the machine.

With regards to the State, well, they caused this problem when they implemented trending (which transfered the tax burden from slow growing commercial property to faster growing residential property) and by eliminating the inventory tax. If they want to fix the property tax problem, they need to eliminate the tranding system of assesment and reinstitutie an inventory tax.

So I think Mitch's proposal is pure crap. Raising the sales tax is a bad idea (Illinois' tax rate is only 6.25%, less than Mitch's proposal of 7%). Replacing stable property tax revenue for volatile sales tax revenue is a recipie for disaster during the next recession, which more than likely will happen next year.

Having the state take over more school spending is also a bad idea. How can local schools be local controlled if the state is paying the tab?

So what is Buzzcut's tax plan? The status quo. No increase in income or sales taxes. No state bailouts of schools or welfare. Property owners are protected to a certain extent by the 2% assessment cap. Your taxes will rise to 2%, but no more. Local governments will just need to figure out how to live on that much revenue.

Buzzcut's tax plan will bankrupt the Democrat machine. You might not like paying 2% of your assessed value in taxes every year, but in the long run that's a lot less than you'll pay under Mitch's plan.

Also, look at Illinois. The rule of thumb in Illinois is that property taxes are 2% of the home's value. So Indiana will still be competitive with that. Our income tax will be slightly higher, our sales tax a little lower.

We in Lake County need to be mindful of our tax competitiveness with Illinois, something that the yankers in Marion County don't think about.

HB 1858: Problem or Solution

http://www.post-trib.com/news/666004,gareax.article

My political mentor has told me about HB 1858. Passed in 2004, it granted "huge" property tax relief to the big corporations on the lake. As a result of the relief, taxes for homeowners in places like Whitting, Gary, and East Chicago went through the roof.

This article was about the opinions of Lake County legislators with regards to HB 1858. Of course, their opinions are irrelevant. The Indiana legislature doesn't give a damn about Lake County. They're not going to change the law, and even if they did, I'm sure that Mitch would veto it.

Myself, I think that HB 1858 was an awesome law. It killed the Democrat machine's sugar daddy. Without those property tax revenues (and I've heard that BP cut its tax bill by $20 MILLION dollars per year!!!) the Democrat machine can't keep its thugs employed day to day.

I haven't actually taken a look at HB 1858. I'll take a look and if there is anything interesting, I'll post on it.

Who can remove Councilman Smith from office?

There are two pertinant laws with regards to who can remove Councilman Smith from office.

IC 34-17-1-1Information; when filing allowed

Sec. 1. An information may be filed against any person or corporation in the following cases:

(1) When a person usurps, intrudes into, or unlawfully holds or exercises a public office or a franchise within Indiana or an office in a corporation created by the authority of this state.

As I documented in previous posts, Councilman Smith has obviously been impeached by law upon his conviction for felony tax evasion.

So who can file this "information"?

IC 34-17-2-1Filing of information

Sec. 1. An information described in IC 34-17-1-1 may be filed:

(1) by the prosecuting attorney in the circuit court of the proper county, upon the prosecuting attorney's own relation, whenever the prosecuting attorney:

(A) determines it to be the prosecuting attorney's duty to do so; or

(B) is directed by the court or other competent authority;

So who is supposed to remove Councilman Smith from office?

http://www.lakecountyin.org/portal/media-type/html/group/prosecutor/page/default;jsessionid=8A59DCF45B7238C6AD0EBAE8B11D8AE4

Mr. Carter, do your job!

It's the law: South County will get screwed

More promises are being made with regards to the proposed Lake County "Optional" Income Tax.

The law as it reads now will distribute tax dollars in such a way that south county communities will get 50 cents for every dollar residents pay in taxes.

North county communities will get over $2 for every dollar they pay.

In another words, state law as it now stands will rape south county and enrich the Democrat political machine.

The promise made by Lake County legislators is that "they will do everything in their power to get the State legislature to change the COIT distribution formula".

Yeah, good luck with that.

In case you haven't noticed, legislators in Indy HATE Lake County. They go out of their way to write legislation that screws Lake County whenever they can.

Exhibit No. 1 is HB 1010, which freezes Lake Counties levy if we don't adopt a COIT.

Exhibit No. 2 is the 2001 law that forced Lake County to use an outside firm to reassess county property. This was the first wave of the property tax surge in Lake County. People in the Miller Subdivision in Gary saw their property taxes go from $3k per year to $18k per year.

So, we have a legislature with a history of screwing Lake County. Why exactly would they want to change the distribution formula just to please people in south county?

Stupid is as stupid does. Do not support the COIT. Screw Indy, HB 1010 is unconstitutional.

Word on the Street: Income tax will pass on second vote.

Okay, I've got a juicy rumor regarding the COIT.

Councilman Tom O'Donnell will vote against the income tax on the first vote on the 26th. The Lake County Commisioners will then veto the income tax. Then it goes back to the council for a veto over-ride. O'Donnell will then switch his vote.

We will have an income tax in Lake County by next week.

I promise you this: I live in O'Donnell's district. If he changes his vote, and there is no opposition to him in the next election, I'll run against him. The COIT is the noose to hang him and any other south county concilman that votes for it by.

Happy Thanksgiving Lake County Taxpayers!

YOU are going to me the meal on Monday. Enjoy your money while its still yours.

Roosevelt Allen Jr. is trying to smoke us

http://www.post-trib.com/news/opinion/657796,allen.article

Mr. Allen is Mr. Big in Lake County Government. He is head of the board of comissioners.

He says that there is no way getting around implementing a COIT:

1. The governor and legislators will try to remove family and children services from the property tax rolls and transfer this funding obligation to the state. This would significantly reduce welfare costs in Lake County. Without a 1 percent local option income tax, Lake County will be excluded from this relief.

Look at Article IV, Section 22 of the Indiana Constitution, Mr. Allen. The legislature cannot offer relief to other counties and not offer it to Lake County. If they take up welfare for everyone else, we can force them to take it up for us as well.

2. The governor and legislators will try to transfer to the state the remaining school funding that is paid with property taxes. Without a 1 percent income tax, Lake County will be excluded from this relief.

See above. They can't do this.

3. Some legislators will try to develop a more equitable distribution formula within Lake County for the income tax proceeds from a Lake County tax. There are no guarantees, but nothing even will be attempted without a 1 percent income tax.

Mr. Allen thinks that we're stupid.

Look, the legislature caused the problems with the property tax in the first place, by eliminating the inventory tax and imposing trending.

So the state causes the problem, and then tells US what WE need to do to fix "our" problem?

And then they tell us that they're going to fix the disbursement formula that totally screws south county?

What did Slick Willey say? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".

Why should I put my faith in the legislature to "fix" this problem? That's retarded.

4. Various leaders in the Indiana House and Senate have committed to re-examine the impact of House Bill 1858, which was enacted in 2001. This legislation permitted several large steel companies and one large oil company in Lake County to depreciate their business personal property down to a floor of 10 percent, rather than the 30 percent floor that applied to all other business entities in Indiana.

Whatever, dude. HB 1858 has nothing to do with property taxes in south county. It has everything to do with property taxes in Whiting, East Chicago, Gary, and Hammond. The solution there is not to return to the confiscatory property taxes on BP and Mittal. The solution is to dismantle the political machine in those towns. Fire the patronage workers. Cut spending.

North county has everything it needs to fund itself. They've got the casinos. What more do they need?

The answer, of course, is that the "needs" of the political machine are insatiable. The COIT is just more money to feed the machine.

I'm sorry Mr. Allen, but homey don't play dat.

More on HB 1010 unconstitutionality

I am very confident that county-specific language in HB 1010 is unonstitutional.

I'm no lawyer, but I think I have some good evidence:

1) plain language of Indiana constitution.

2) common sense

3) CASE LAW!!!!!

#3 is key.

Check it out. The Miller Citizens Council sued the state of Indiana in '04 because of a law that allowed a private company to run re-assessment in Lake County, and Lake County alone. The case went all the way to the Indiana Supreme Court. The ISC ruled that the law was unconstitutional because it was county specific, and violated Article IV, Section 22 of the Indiana Constitution.

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/previous/archive/01130501.trb.html

Like I said, I'm no lawyer. But I have reading comprehension, and I'm not an idiot.

I wish the same could be said of our elected officials, bureacracy, and citizens.

Looky here, HB 1010 IS unconstitutional!

Article IV, Section 22 says:

The General Assembly shall not pass local or special laws:

Regulating county and township business;

Providing for the assessment and collection of taxes for State, county, township, or road purposes;

HB 1010 (which passed today, almost unanimously) says:

This subsection applies only to civil taxing units in Lake County.

Sounds like unconstituional special legislation to me!!!!

HB 1010 is UNCONSTITUIONAL

HB 1010 has county specifc legislation in it, regarding Lake County's tax levy.

Isn't county specific legislation of a punative nature a violation of the equal protection clause of the constitution?

Screwed by Indy again...

Okay guys, get this.

The house and senate are convening today, Nov. 20th, for a one day organizational meeting.

There is one bill on the calendar, House Bill 1010.

Guess what HB 1010 does? It makes the governors illegal extension of the county "optional" income tax legal.

The governor extended the deadline from July 1st '07 to December 31st '07. He had no power to make such an extension.

Burried in this bill is an item changing the deadline for Lake County to the 31st of Dec.

The bill also says that if Lake County does not implement the COIT, then the levy that local governments impose will be frozen at last years level.

You bastards!

Timeline

Will Smith was convicted on Sept. 28th:

http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2007/09/28//news/top_news/doc51b7517bdca595ff862573640014fcd4.txt

This means that he was impeached on the 28th, according to 5-8-1-37 (a).

From the time of impeachment, the Democrats have 30 days to caucus for his replacement.

IC 3-13-5-1
Caucus selection of successor
Sec. 1. (a) A vacancy in a legislative office shall be filled by a
caucus comprised of the precinct committeemen from the senate or
house district where the vacancy exists who represent the same
political party that elected or selected the person who held the
vacated seat.
(b) Not later than thirty (30) days after the vacancy occurs (or as
provided in subsections (c) and (d)), the caucus shall meet and select
a person to fill the vacancy by a majority vote of those casting a vote
for a candidate, including vice committeemen eligible to vote as a
proxy under section 5 of this chapter.

Why'd I post to a Lefty Blog?

Dude, I drive a Saab (the No. 1 Gayest car. Not that there's anything wrong with that).

I listen to leftwing talk radio. Got Air America locked in to my XM radio. Very entertaining.

I'm a Republican because of corruption. Like it or not, the Democrat party in Lake County is corrupt to the core. Any support of any Democrat supports the corruption.

The only way around this is to vote for Republicans. Sorry, it's a fact.

Doesn't mean I support the Iraq War, guns, or abortion. This blog is focused like a laser beam on Lake County, and cleaning it up.

If you're from out of the area, and can't get your head around me advocating for Republians at the state and local level, I appologize, but that's reality. If you want to be a member of the "Reality Based Community", you need to accept facts.

Update on the Fresh Prince

Okay, here's the deal.

For some reason, Indiana Statute 5-8-1-37 has two versions, a and b.

a version says that you're impeached upon conviction of a felony.

b version says that you're impeached upon sentencing of a felony.

a version is from Public Law 113-05.

b version is from Public Law 119-05.

This makes it seem like the b version is germaine, as it is the later Public Law. This is what the County Attorney says.

So I looked into it. I called Legislative Services in Indianapolis, to see when these two laws were passed, signed, etc.

I talked to an attorney with Legislative Services. He said that the number under public law is just a convenience, and 119 did not necessarily get passed after 113.

I did some more sluething.

a version was Senate Bill 18. It was passed on 4/25/05.

b version was Sentate Bill 179. It was passed on 4/13/05.

They were both signed by the Governor on 5/4/05.

So which law applies? I think that the County Attorney is wrong. EITHER law could apply. There is just as many vallid arguments to apply the a version of the law as the b version.

So which should apply?

CAN HIM! NOW!

Will Smith is NOT the Fresh Prince!

Okay, let's go through this.

Will Smith is a Lake County Councilman.

Will Smith has been convicted of a felony.

Indiana law (5-8-1-37) says that felons are impreached upon conviction.

Why is Will Smith still on the County Council?

http://nwi.com/articles/2007/10/31//news/lake_county/doc6deed4e70295deff862573840082a46b.txt

This article says that Smith my not even lose his seat on the council. That is a clear violation of the law, in my opinion.

Now, I'm not a lawyer. But I have some fucking reading comprehension. This is what the law says:

(b) Any public officer convicted of a felony during the officer's term of office shall:
(1) be removed from office by operation of law when:
(A) in a jury trial, a jury publicly announces a verdict against the person for a felony;

Pretty clear, huh?

Why is this guy still a Councilman?

CAN HIM!

What's the matter with Lake County?

OK, I get it to a certain extent. Daddy was a Democrat. Grandpa was a Democrat. You're born into this, to a certain extent.

I'm not much different. My parents are Democrats. My grandparents were Democrats. They are/ were in unions.

But, dude. Numbers don't lie. Look nationally. Straight white males are 70% Republican. Straight white married females are 60% Republican.

Lake County is majority white. Democrat towns like Whiting, Hammond, Dyer, Schereville, etc. are ALL white.

Where the HELL are all the Republicans?

New to blogging!

Okay, here it goes.

Long time commenter, first time blogger.

I've been on the 'net for about 15 years now. I had my own politics based web page in, oh '98 or so.

I've posted literally thousands of comments on other blogs.

Why start blogging now?

I moved to Lake County, Indiana. It's as blue a county as they come. Democrat to the core.

It's also unbelievably corrupt. And coming from Cook County, Illinois, that's saying something.

Needless to say, I'm a Republican. I haven't voted for a Democrat since 1992 (yeah, I voted for Slick Willey the first time. Sorry, my bad).

I don't see much happening, Republican wise, here in Lake County. There are lots of straight white males who vote Democrat. That's insane. Republicans should be cleaning up here.

So this blog is my attempt to change that. News and commentary on Lake County, the Republican perspective, and maybe, just maybe, the spark that tips Lake County Red.